Hello, kind people of TAM. I have been a lurker here for the last two weeks. First of all I want to thank all of you for sharing your experience, opinion and advice. I have learned a lot from my short time here.
Unfortunately it has come to a point where I feel the need to share my story with you and ask for your support through what I am still struggling with every single day. Please be prepared for a wall of text.
Background on my marriage:
My husband and I met through an online game when we were still teens. We were good friends before we began dating. Neither of us were on the best of terms with our respective families at the time, so it meant a lot to us that we had each other to talk to almost every day. We had a long-distance relationship with occasional visits to each other for several years before I moved to his country and we got married.
We registered our marriage on our own even though both families became supportive of us as time went on. My hope is to pull through the toughest financial years with him and then we can throw a renewal-of-vows party for friends and families. He does not care about having a wedding but is willing to do something like that with me.
Other tidbits:
The initial pain:
It all came crashing down before new years. We had our little hiccups and arguments here and there, but those are not frequent. For the longest time I thought we had something perfectly fine going on, that we loved each other, were fully committed to our relationship, and were able to work through any problems that we had. Little did I know he had been flirting with other women since before we got married and had PA with two women. On the outside, he acts like he's single. So far I think only his current coworkers and our mutual friends know he's married (besides our families, my friends and coworkers).
When we first started dating, I had a period of adjustment where I had to tell myself to not get jealous that he still liked to talk to his female friends (some are mutual friends). Other than that initial period, I rarely get pangs of jealousy, and they all pass quickly. I consider myself to be a very understanding person. I have male friends, so I believe in having friends of the opposite gender. The problem is I seem to have a stronger moral code and firmer boundaries than him. For me, if I frequently talked to a male friend or wanted to share things with him, I would pull myself back and remind myself to put my husband first. I know when I am weak, so I take good care to make sure I do not tread on landmines when I am in a vulnerable state (such as the last two and half months). For my husband though... I assumed he was the same as me and you know what people say about assumptions.
For the month/months leading up to DDay, I noticed my husband frequently smiled at his phone while he texted his "friends." This usually happened when we were in the living room. During this time I would sometimes point it out to him and inquire whom he was talking to. He never gave me a straight answer and he was always secretive about his cellphone. Then he started to ask me to stay out of our bedroom for about 10 minutes so he could finish doing "his thing." (We usually hang out in the living room, though our bathroom is in our bedroom.) I know that both of us sometimes read/watch erotic stuff, so I reluctantly gave him his space. (I think I'm less reluctant in sharing my selection than he is his.)
The dead giveaways were the two times when he left his Skype open on my computer. I'm not usually one to pry, so the first time it happened, I quickly scanned the names of the people he was talking to and told him he left his Skype open. I asked him who were all those girls that I didn't know. Looking back, he was already defensive then. He said that some were people/scammers who'd randomly friend you on Skype and try to date you (he thought it's funny talking to them) and some were friends that he met in other games or from other places. He even said I could read his chats if I wanted to. I let it go because at the time I still trusted him completely despite my sinking gut feelings. However, the second time it happened, I called his bluff and skimmed through some of the chats. Since they were flirtatious in nature, I had a talk with him. I was angry but very calm this first time around.
At first he was also confused himself. He said he has tried to stop this behavior on his own before, but he'd eventually fallen back into the habit. He said he didn't see promiscuity as something morally wrong. He said he believe it's in human nature to want to have sex with multiple people, that he didn't realize he was this way before he got together with me. That it had nothing to do with me. He admitted to liking the thrill of the chase, but he insisted he was not really interested in any of those other women.
I think the first time I found out, he was sorry that he got caught. His own words were "I'm sorry that you feel hurt by this." He was not sorry that he did something wrong and he was not sorry that he directly hurt me. I understood perfectly well people's desire to self-preserve, so I thought long and hard about what he said and how I wanted to handle the whole thing. I knew there are swingers and open relationships out there, so I wasn't completely blind to alternate sexual lifestyles. I seriously considered, reevaluated what I want and did preliminary research online regarding why people cheat. I could barely sleep that night. I sat in bed staring at walls while I tried to make sense of what he said. He asked if I wanted him to stay away from me for the time being. I told him to stay. (Part of it was my then-codependency at play.) It didn't really help that he was able to sleep just fine.
The next morning we laid in bed, I started to ask him for details. Then somehow, unbelievably (based on what I thought of him back then), I asked him about whether he has gotten naked in front of other women or even had sex with them. He reluctantly answered yes to both and gave me a count. I tried to get time frames and names from him but he refused, saying they are in the past. He also insisted it was all just sexual attraction, that he was not emotionally involved with any of them. He even said at least one of the two other women he had sex with was on the same page as him in regards to sex being just sex. I went to work that afternoon putting on a strong front. I pushed myself to work because I refused to let his trespasses to make me miss work. I love my job and it helped me put my mind somewhere else for the time being.
In the end I wrote him a letter and told him that I could be understanding and I even admit to my problems in our relationship, but he has hurt me deeply and I would not agree to allow him do whatever he wants with other women, that includes frequent texting, flirting, sexting and any inappropriate physical contact. I think he was more than happy that I was willing to give him another chance to try again, though at that time he said he could not promise me definite results. (I hear you, that's a big warning sign. Sadly I didn't know better then.)
Second pain:
After a month of Hysterical Bonding, I very slowly worked through my doubts and watched him closely. He refused to share certain details with me so asking him questions was very difficult. He had opened up a bit more about what phone apps he used to contact other women. After some pushes, he showed me that he deleted most of the inappropriate contacts he had on his phone. I say most, because as I slowly found out, other contacts I once thought were OK were actually not OK. Yes, he trickle truthed me. I did not want to push him too hard and have him clam up. I told him I'd appreciate it if he'd tell me everything himself without prompting (which he never did).
Near the end of January, I took a chance to check his e-mail, facebook and saved a copy of his Skype chat record. I read through some of his e-mails and facebook chats (not his Skype, as I think that would likely be too much for me) and found out a lot more than what he originally told me. For a while I thought he was the one being pursued by other women, then I found out he had been acting like he's single all along, trying to chat up his old coworkers and hooking up with people online. He told me certain people knew he's in a committed relationship and the fact that we live together. That was not true. I was merely a "roommate" that he mentioned in passing. He also used experiences that we shared together as a talking point when flirting up women. I also found out that he started to reply to hook-up postings again not many days ago. (The stuff from before DDay did not trigger me as much as the stuff from after DDay.)
This time I was furious. As soon as he got home from picking up food, I told him we needed to talk. Our roommates were in the living room about to eat, but I didn't care. We went to our bedroom and I tried to keep my voice even, but my whole body was shaking with rage. To this day I still commend my self restraint. I told him flat out that he needed to choose between me or his singledom. Last time I gave him a chance and I chose to stay with him, thinking that we could work through it and become better persons. This time I left the choice up to him. I was fully willing to walk away if he wanted to be single again. On the other hand, if he wanted to stay in the relationship, he needed to be clear on the boundaries. I have no intention of being his Plan B or placeholder.
I think I put him in shock. I told him I was able to pull through the first time because I believed in him, that once all the deception came out, he wouldn't feel the need to hide anymore, that he can truly change and he'd have my support. I have learned since then being understanding and supporting as a BS does not work in our relationship. He cried and he told me that I'm worth it, that he will purge and change. I told him he needed to read the selected links I sent him (I shared a whole collection with him but he never read them) and he needed to read the brainstorming document I wrote up after first DDay with my suggestions on how to stay away from temptations and do more self reflection. The list included things like he should not withhold the fact that he's married from acquaintances and friends if the chance/conversation comes up.
He read the list and the specific articles I linked. He said he did not agree with all of them but I did see the change in him over time. He said one thing that really resonated with him was when I said he was investing all the time he could have spent with me with other people. I did notice how he has been redirecting a lot of his energy on me. We now spend more time together and he's not as secretive as before.
Epiphany:
I tried to stay positive and started to mentally withdraw myself from him. I admitted to myself that I had codependency issues and I've been working on that. I feel better now and I believe he's slowly getting the message that I am someone who can live without him. It does not make it hurt any less, but I now have a better perspective on our relationship. I used to think that his affairs were partly my fault, that maybe he was dissatisfied in some way. Now I understand even though I may have caused problems in our relationship (he did too), the affairs were definitely 100% his fault. I was dissatisfied at times, too, but I would never do such a thing against my moral code and hurt the one I love the most. He may have a different moral code, but he needs to understand that going against one of my fundamental morals is a big no no. I already let him know that despite what I told him immediately after DDay regarding my willingness to share blame in this misstep, I knew I did not hing wrong for the month that came after DDay to warrant his second trespass.
All that said and done, he still has not volunteered any additional information regarding his past activities. I had to confront him after each time I found more evidence/facts.
Today is one of those days. I am part upset that I gave in to snooping on his computer, something I said I wouldn't do again, but deep down I am truly glad that I now have solid proof of both of his PAs. I had asked him before, that when he refused to give me the other women's names at the very least, whom he was really protecting. Whether he was protecting them, himself or me? I told him time and time again that I wanted the truth. I had found evidence that linked to one of his PAs before, but it seemed like that was a one time thing so I let it go. The one I found out today, however, seemed to be the one that went on multiple times (he did tell me that) and I am not so quick to believe that the OW is not emotionally involved at all. She seems to have problems of her own, but I would not blame her for the affair as judging from the records, she thinks my husband is still single.
Quite honestly I have half a heart to text her to let her know what's really going on with my husband being MIA to her. More than that, I want to talk to my husband tonight and request that he text her and tell her to cease all contact because he's married, made a gigantic mistake and has recommitted himself to our relationship. That, and he needs to go through with changing his facebook status to being married to me. I have requested for him to confirm it, but since neither of us are big fb users, he refused on the grounds that he didn't want some of his older acquaintance to think he's active on there again (some he has fallen out with). Seriously though, when he refused the first time, I knew he was just saying that to get out of doing it, because I knew he was using fb as a way to flirt with his past coworkers/friends who thought he's single. Changing his status will raise questions and potentially make him look bad.
I know I need to get past this with or without him. That said, I love him too much to not try to support him in improving himself. We are having a good month so far and I do not want to undo the progress. Eventually I think we will need to let our families know about his affairs. Right now it does not seem to be a good idea since mine is far away and they will tear him apart; he has a complicated relationship with his and I think they will likely side with me and tear him apart, too. I do want to have support, since I know what it's like having been doing it alone for so long, so here I am on TAM, sharing my story.
As things are right now, we are moving along, trying, and I'm keeping my eyes open, observing how things go.
Thank you very much for reading.
Unfortunately it has come to a point where I feel the need to share my story with you and ask for your support through what I am still struggling with every single day. Please be prepared for a wall of text.
Background on my marriage:
My husband and I met through an online game when we were still teens. We were good friends before we began dating. Neither of us were on the best of terms with our respective families at the time, so it meant a lot to us that we had each other to talk to almost every day. We had a long-distance relationship with occasional visits to each other for several years before I moved to his country and we got married.
We registered our marriage on our own even though both families became supportive of us as time went on. My hope is to pull through the toughest financial years with him and then we can throw a renewal-of-vows party for friends and families. He does not care about having a wedding but is willing to do something like that with me.
Other tidbits:
- We are best friends.
- We both had crushes on other people before we started dating.
- We were each other's first date.
- We had a very steady on-going relationship. We never broke up in between.
- We still talk to our mutual friends that we met through the game.
- We used to joke about how marriage wasn't a big step for us, that it was mainly a way for us to move across countries and be together.
- I have done tons of research on a range of topics related to infidelity, anything from scientific research, opinion pieces to a blog written by a cheater who turned his life around. I have shared some of the more interesting articles with my husband.
- I admit to having some codependency issues in the past, but I'm actively working through it and am presently feeling more centered as a person.
- We share an apartment with two roommates who are mutual friends of ours. The female roommate is rarely here due to work but we see the male roommate every day. We share the living room.
The initial pain:
It all came crashing down before new years. We had our little hiccups and arguments here and there, but those are not frequent. For the longest time I thought we had something perfectly fine going on, that we loved each other, were fully committed to our relationship, and were able to work through any problems that we had. Little did I know he had been flirting with other women since before we got married and had PA with two women. On the outside, he acts like he's single. So far I think only his current coworkers and our mutual friends know he's married (besides our families, my friends and coworkers).
When we first started dating, I had a period of adjustment where I had to tell myself to not get jealous that he still liked to talk to his female friends (some are mutual friends). Other than that initial period, I rarely get pangs of jealousy, and they all pass quickly. I consider myself to be a very understanding person. I have male friends, so I believe in having friends of the opposite gender. The problem is I seem to have a stronger moral code and firmer boundaries than him. For me, if I frequently talked to a male friend or wanted to share things with him, I would pull myself back and remind myself to put my husband first. I know when I am weak, so I take good care to make sure I do not tread on landmines when I am in a vulnerable state (such as the last two and half months). For my husband though... I assumed he was the same as me and you know what people say about assumptions.
For the month/months leading up to DDay, I noticed my husband frequently smiled at his phone while he texted his "friends." This usually happened when we were in the living room. During this time I would sometimes point it out to him and inquire whom he was talking to. He never gave me a straight answer and he was always secretive about his cellphone. Then he started to ask me to stay out of our bedroom for about 10 minutes so he could finish doing "his thing." (We usually hang out in the living room, though our bathroom is in our bedroom.) I know that both of us sometimes read/watch erotic stuff, so I reluctantly gave him his space. (I think I'm less reluctant in sharing my selection than he is his.)
The dead giveaways were the two times when he left his Skype open on my computer. I'm not usually one to pry, so the first time it happened, I quickly scanned the names of the people he was talking to and told him he left his Skype open. I asked him who were all those girls that I didn't know. Looking back, he was already defensive then. He said that some were people/scammers who'd randomly friend you on Skype and try to date you (he thought it's funny talking to them) and some were friends that he met in other games or from other places. He even said I could read his chats if I wanted to. I let it go because at the time I still trusted him completely despite my sinking gut feelings. However, the second time it happened, I called his bluff and skimmed through some of the chats. Since they were flirtatious in nature, I had a talk with him. I was angry but very calm this first time around.
At first he was also confused himself. He said he has tried to stop this behavior on his own before, but he'd eventually fallen back into the habit. He said he didn't see promiscuity as something morally wrong. He said he believe it's in human nature to want to have sex with multiple people, that he didn't realize he was this way before he got together with me. That it had nothing to do with me. He admitted to liking the thrill of the chase, but he insisted he was not really interested in any of those other women.
I think the first time I found out, he was sorry that he got caught. His own words were "I'm sorry that you feel hurt by this." He was not sorry that he did something wrong and he was not sorry that he directly hurt me. I understood perfectly well people's desire to self-preserve, so I thought long and hard about what he said and how I wanted to handle the whole thing. I knew there are swingers and open relationships out there, so I wasn't completely blind to alternate sexual lifestyles. I seriously considered, reevaluated what I want and did preliminary research online regarding why people cheat. I could barely sleep that night. I sat in bed staring at walls while I tried to make sense of what he said. He asked if I wanted him to stay away from me for the time being. I told him to stay. (Part of it was my then-codependency at play.) It didn't really help that he was able to sleep just fine.
The next morning we laid in bed, I started to ask him for details. Then somehow, unbelievably (based on what I thought of him back then), I asked him about whether he has gotten naked in front of other women or even had sex with them. He reluctantly answered yes to both and gave me a count. I tried to get time frames and names from him but he refused, saying they are in the past. He also insisted it was all just sexual attraction, that he was not emotionally involved with any of them. He even said at least one of the two other women he had sex with was on the same page as him in regards to sex being just sex. I went to work that afternoon putting on a strong front. I pushed myself to work because I refused to let his trespasses to make me miss work. I love my job and it helped me put my mind somewhere else for the time being.
In the end I wrote him a letter and told him that I could be understanding and I even admit to my problems in our relationship, but he has hurt me deeply and I would not agree to allow him do whatever he wants with other women, that includes frequent texting, flirting, sexting and any inappropriate physical contact. I think he was more than happy that I was willing to give him another chance to try again, though at that time he said he could not promise me definite results. (I hear you, that's a big warning sign. Sadly I didn't know better then.)
Second pain:
After a month of Hysterical Bonding, I very slowly worked through my doubts and watched him closely. He refused to share certain details with me so asking him questions was very difficult. He had opened up a bit more about what phone apps he used to contact other women. After some pushes, he showed me that he deleted most of the inappropriate contacts he had on his phone. I say most, because as I slowly found out, other contacts I once thought were OK were actually not OK. Yes, he trickle truthed me. I did not want to push him too hard and have him clam up. I told him I'd appreciate it if he'd tell me everything himself without prompting (which he never did).
Near the end of January, I took a chance to check his e-mail, facebook and saved a copy of his Skype chat record. I read through some of his e-mails and facebook chats (not his Skype, as I think that would likely be too much for me) and found out a lot more than what he originally told me. For a while I thought he was the one being pursued by other women, then I found out he had been acting like he's single all along, trying to chat up his old coworkers and hooking up with people online. He told me certain people knew he's in a committed relationship and the fact that we live together. That was not true. I was merely a "roommate" that he mentioned in passing. He also used experiences that we shared together as a talking point when flirting up women. I also found out that he started to reply to hook-up postings again not many days ago. (The stuff from before DDay did not trigger me as much as the stuff from after DDay.)
This time I was furious. As soon as he got home from picking up food, I told him we needed to talk. Our roommates were in the living room about to eat, but I didn't care. We went to our bedroom and I tried to keep my voice even, but my whole body was shaking with rage. To this day I still commend my self restraint. I told him flat out that he needed to choose between me or his singledom. Last time I gave him a chance and I chose to stay with him, thinking that we could work through it and become better persons. This time I left the choice up to him. I was fully willing to walk away if he wanted to be single again. On the other hand, if he wanted to stay in the relationship, he needed to be clear on the boundaries. I have no intention of being his Plan B or placeholder.
I think I put him in shock. I told him I was able to pull through the first time because I believed in him, that once all the deception came out, he wouldn't feel the need to hide anymore, that he can truly change and he'd have my support. I have learned since then being understanding and supporting as a BS does not work in our relationship. He cried and he told me that I'm worth it, that he will purge and change. I told him he needed to read the selected links I sent him (I shared a whole collection with him but he never read them) and he needed to read the brainstorming document I wrote up after first DDay with my suggestions on how to stay away from temptations and do more self reflection. The list included things like he should not withhold the fact that he's married from acquaintances and friends if the chance/conversation comes up.
He read the list and the specific articles I linked. He said he did not agree with all of them but I did see the change in him over time. He said one thing that really resonated with him was when I said he was investing all the time he could have spent with me with other people. I did notice how he has been redirecting a lot of his energy on me. We now spend more time together and he's not as secretive as before.
Epiphany:
I tried to stay positive and started to mentally withdraw myself from him. I admitted to myself that I had codependency issues and I've been working on that. I feel better now and I believe he's slowly getting the message that I am someone who can live without him. It does not make it hurt any less, but I now have a better perspective on our relationship. I used to think that his affairs were partly my fault, that maybe he was dissatisfied in some way. Now I understand even though I may have caused problems in our relationship (he did too), the affairs were definitely 100% his fault. I was dissatisfied at times, too, but I would never do such a thing against my moral code and hurt the one I love the most. He may have a different moral code, but he needs to understand that going against one of my fundamental morals is a big no no. I already let him know that despite what I told him immediately after DDay regarding my willingness to share blame in this misstep, I knew I did not hing wrong for the month that came after DDay to warrant his second trespass.
All that said and done, he still has not volunteered any additional information regarding his past activities. I had to confront him after each time I found more evidence/facts.
Today is one of those days. I am part upset that I gave in to snooping on his computer, something I said I wouldn't do again, but deep down I am truly glad that I now have solid proof of both of his PAs. I had asked him before, that when he refused to give me the other women's names at the very least, whom he was really protecting. Whether he was protecting them, himself or me? I told him time and time again that I wanted the truth. I had found evidence that linked to one of his PAs before, but it seemed like that was a one time thing so I let it go. The one I found out today, however, seemed to be the one that went on multiple times (he did tell me that) and I am not so quick to believe that the OW is not emotionally involved at all. She seems to have problems of her own, but I would not blame her for the affair as judging from the records, she thinks my husband is still single.
Quite honestly I have half a heart to text her to let her know what's really going on with my husband being MIA to her. More than that, I want to talk to my husband tonight and request that he text her and tell her to cease all contact because he's married, made a gigantic mistake and has recommitted himself to our relationship. That, and he needs to go through with changing his facebook status to being married to me. I have requested for him to confirm it, but since neither of us are big fb users, he refused on the grounds that he didn't want some of his older acquaintance to think he's active on there again (some he has fallen out with). Seriously though, when he refused the first time, I knew he was just saying that to get out of doing it, because I knew he was using fb as a way to flirt with his past coworkers/friends who thought he's single. Changing his status will raise questions and potentially make him look bad.
I know I need to get past this with or without him. That said, I love him too much to not try to support him in improving himself. We are having a good month so far and I do not want to undo the progress. Eventually I think we will need to let our families know about his affairs. Right now it does not seem to be a good idea since mine is far away and they will tear him apart; he has a complicated relationship with his and I think they will likely side with me and tear him apart, too. I do want to have support, since I know what it's like having been doing it alone for so long, so here I am on TAM, sharing my story.
As things are right now, we are moving along, trying, and I'm keeping my eyes open, observing how things go.
Thank you very much for reading.
Put the internet to work for you.
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