Apologies in advance for the long post. This has been building up for a while. You can skip to the last paragraph if you don't want to read the whole thing.
MARRIAGE #1
So, some back story. In 1996, I got married very young, at 20, to a woman I met online. We can call her Lauren. It sounds crazy now, but back in the day, nobody had ever done this before. We were Internet pioneers. We spent entire days chatting or talking on the phone, sometimes for four to six hours a day, which is significantly longer than most dates. Our courtship was many hundreds of hours and we got to know each other really well. I was deeply in love with her and decided I wanted to move in with her.
Problem #1 was that I was not attracted to her physically. She sent me a picture after we got to know each other and I was a little taken aback. She was about 100 pounds overweight. I had already fallen in love with who she was as a person, though, so I decided not to be superficial and not let it bother me. Problem #2 was that she was 16 years older than me. Again, though, I felt like worrying about the age gap would be shallow of me.
We occasionally argued and bickered, and there were plenty of things she did that annoyed the hell out of me—but I knew that to some degree, marriage was about compromise and that there are some things you just learn to tolerate. She was always making pop culture references from her generation that I just couldn't relate to, though, and people were constantly mistaking her for my mom instead of my wife. Well, live and learn.
We had two kids. I worked while she stayed home, and I somehow made enough money to support us all. Whenever I got home from work, or on my days off, she disappeared into the bedroom to watch television and I did the majority of the child care.
Eventually, though, I got to the point where I was just miserable every day. I was constantly discovering new ways she'd lied to me. When we were courting, she sent me a demo tape she'd made, and I fell in love with her voice. Years later, I found the record album she'd copied it from, so it hadn't even been her voice to begin with. Also, I found some posts she'd left on a message board, talking about how she had faked every single orgasm she'd ever had with me—bragging that she was the "world's greatest actor, but nobody knows it! Hee hee!"
So, I felt betrayed and deceived. I was angry with her and was at a point where I didn't want to spend any time with her at all. This is a vast simplification of my feelings towards her. In the back of my mind, I always told myself that I wouldn't do to my kids what my parents did to me. I held this ideal that I would not divorce under any circumstances. I was placing the sanctity of the marriage, the completeness of the family unit, before my own happiness, and it was killing me. I'd invested nine years of my life with this woman and I didn't want to start over, and yet I didn't want to spend the rest of my life being miserable.
THE AFFAIR
In 2004, I met this girl at work (we can call her Brenda) who took a liking to me. We had some of the same problems (she was also stuck in a marriage in which she was deeply unhappy; she said once she'd only married him so she wouldn't be alone) and could relate to each other. We were about the same age and she was cute and only carrying a few extra pounds. Long story short, we got very close and started to wonder what it would be like if we got together. I was totally caught up in the emotional aspect of the affair but I also tried to keep my head and approach the situation logically. Was I prepared to end my marriage to be with this woman? How would it affect the kids? I decided that my children would not benefit from me continuing to live with a woman I hated. I still harbor horrible memories of my parents' worst fights and no child should have to endure that.
Judge me if you want. I made the decision that I felt was right for me. I don't deserve to be miserable just for the sake of holding onto some lofty ideal. Also, Brenda and I are a success story. They say that less than one percent of affairs ever make it as long-term relationships, and yet here we are, ten years later.
MARRIAGE #2
The kids from my first marriage loved Brenda. Their mom actually got upset that the kids would come home after visits and talked about how they loved her so much. I tried to make the visits with the kids special, but my ex-wife started complaining that I was being a "Disneyland daddy." When I stopped, though, she just started complaining that the kids came over and I just sat on my ass watching TV with them or whatever.
Sex with Brenda was amazing! She was ravenous and enthusiastic and willing to do anything in bed... including things that my ex-wife refused to do. If I ever had trouble getting ready for her, all she had to do was go down on me and that always did the trick. It was great for her, too... she said sex always hurt her during her first marriage, but I think it was just because she was tense. I taught her that sex wasn't supposed to hurt, and she got to the point where she couldn't get enough of me.
Brenda and I eventually had two kids of our own. I think that's when things started to fall apart. I love them very much, but having kids changed our relationship inexorably. We had about two years to ourselves, and during that time she was fun to be with and sexually insatiable. I totally get that this was the "honeymoon phase" in our relationship and a bit of a decline was inevitable. The decline was unexpectedly steep, though. After Brenda got pregnant the first time, she suddenly hated to be touched at all. When the baby was born, we were both constantly sleep-deprived and cranky. When Danny got older, tending to him basically became my responsibility. I already had experience raising two kids, after all. She has even admitted recently that I did about 95% of his child care. More often than not, she would yell at him to be quiet while she watched TV, and I would retire with him to the play room to get him out of her hair.
Three years ago she wanted to have another baby, and I would always joke that it was her turn to take care of the next one. That never really panned out, though. Sometimes I feel like I'm a live-in babysitter. She goes out with friends to movies, or goes to book club with her mom, or goes to PTA meetings or HOA meetings, and I'm always stuck at home. I've been taking care of kids for half my lifetime and there comes a point where it's exhausting.
The biggest problem I'm having right now is a near-complete lack of sex. Usually once in a 30-60 day period. She has virtually no libido. She is a bottomless well of excuses. She doesn't like feeling squishy afterwards; she's afraid the kids will walk in; she's stressed out from work; I said something earlier in the day to upset her; etc. I have tried multiple approaches. For a while we had a "sex jar" where I had filled out slips of paper describing the things I'd like her to do with me (example: "wait until Bob is in the shower and then join him and seduce him!") and she played along for a little while. She would offer to draw a slip from the jar if I did one of her chores or helped her with a project. Eventually, the slips just piled up and never got fulfilled.
She's on birth control, which I've read can affect her chemistry and cause a low sex drive. She's tried several different ones, but some of them make her feel sick. The other day I just suggested that she get off birth control altogether. Seems like kind of a waste since there's not really anything to control right now anyway. With that said, I really don't want a third child with her.
She says that she's always available for me, but when I initiate sex, she just lays there and waits for it to be over. It's essentially me masturbating, but using her body instead of my hand. So, I suggest that she initiate sex every once in a while, but to her, it's a chore. It's like doing laundry or washing dishes—just one more thing on her to-do list she has to check off. I would like for her to actually desire me, not just lay there while I finish inside her.
Also, she's recently said that sex hurts her and that she doesn't look forward to it. So, basically it's like being with her ex-husband all over again. We've noticed that she's much tighter when it's been a long time, so I think that's one of the reasons. I feel like we're going backwards instead of forwards, though.
She also told me about a year ago that she no longer wants to give me oral sex. Her reasoning for this varies. One time she said that it hurts her jaw. Another time, she said that it makes her gag. Once she told me that she's "just not a go-down-there kind of girl." Funny, considering she was a go-down-there girl when we were having our affair. In her car, in her bed, on the stairs. (In case you're wondering, I would go down on her every day, but lately she's been squeamish about it and has decided she doesn't like it. Again, excuses abound. She's worried she's not clean enough; she's too sensitive; I haven't shaved that day; etc. etc.)
I have never insisted that she let me ejaculate in her mouth. I seriously don't even care if she finishes me off or not. I view going down on me as a loving, intimate act and it bothers me that she's suddenly dug her heels into the ground and decided she doesn't do it anymore. I've read a lot of forums similar to this one and this seems like a really common theme. Woman freely fellates her man while they're dating, and as soon as they get married, she decides it's no longer necessary. Honestly, this makes me want to just up and stop doing things, too. "Oh, sorry. I know I used to clean the cat's litter box, but I don't do that anymore. I'm just not a scoop-the-poop kind of guy."
We talked about this subject once and it got really heated. "Oh, so if I don't suck you, is that a dealbreaker or something?! You're going to go find somebody else to suck you instead?!"
I don't really want our relationship to end. She's funny and intelligent and we get along really well. Aside from the lack of sex, I'm not unhappy with our relationship. Speaking from a strictly practical standpoint, I'm pushing 40 and I really don't want to have to start my life over for a third time. I would hate to think that ten years is just my time frame for relationships. I just want to feel desired on some level. Sometimes I want to ask her if I can just have sex with somebody else so she won't have to worry about it any longer.
So, assuming my goal is to salvage this relationship, what is the best course of action? Is it wishful thinking to ever believe that she will express sexual desire for me in the future? How and why does a woman go from being insatiable to being completely frigid? The complete 180-degree turn she made on oral sex is particularly perplexing. Thanks in advance for reading, and for whatever insight you can provide.
Quigster
MARRIAGE #1
So, some back story. In 1996, I got married very young, at 20, to a woman I met online. We can call her Lauren. It sounds crazy now, but back in the day, nobody had ever done this before. We were Internet pioneers. We spent entire days chatting or talking on the phone, sometimes for four to six hours a day, which is significantly longer than most dates. Our courtship was many hundreds of hours and we got to know each other really well. I was deeply in love with her and decided I wanted to move in with her.
Problem #1 was that I was not attracted to her physically. She sent me a picture after we got to know each other and I was a little taken aback. She was about 100 pounds overweight. I had already fallen in love with who she was as a person, though, so I decided not to be superficial and not let it bother me. Problem #2 was that she was 16 years older than me. Again, though, I felt like worrying about the age gap would be shallow of me.
We occasionally argued and bickered, and there were plenty of things she did that annoyed the hell out of me—but I knew that to some degree, marriage was about compromise and that there are some things you just learn to tolerate. She was always making pop culture references from her generation that I just couldn't relate to, though, and people were constantly mistaking her for my mom instead of my wife. Well, live and learn.
We had two kids. I worked while she stayed home, and I somehow made enough money to support us all. Whenever I got home from work, or on my days off, she disappeared into the bedroom to watch television and I did the majority of the child care.
Eventually, though, I got to the point where I was just miserable every day. I was constantly discovering new ways she'd lied to me. When we were courting, she sent me a demo tape she'd made, and I fell in love with her voice. Years later, I found the record album she'd copied it from, so it hadn't even been her voice to begin with. Also, I found some posts she'd left on a message board, talking about how she had faked every single orgasm she'd ever had with me—bragging that she was the "world's greatest actor, but nobody knows it! Hee hee!"
So, I felt betrayed and deceived. I was angry with her and was at a point where I didn't want to spend any time with her at all. This is a vast simplification of my feelings towards her. In the back of my mind, I always told myself that I wouldn't do to my kids what my parents did to me. I held this ideal that I would not divorce under any circumstances. I was placing the sanctity of the marriage, the completeness of the family unit, before my own happiness, and it was killing me. I'd invested nine years of my life with this woman and I didn't want to start over, and yet I didn't want to spend the rest of my life being miserable.
THE AFFAIR
In 2004, I met this girl at work (we can call her Brenda) who took a liking to me. We had some of the same problems (she was also stuck in a marriage in which she was deeply unhappy; she said once she'd only married him so she wouldn't be alone) and could relate to each other. We were about the same age and she was cute and only carrying a few extra pounds. Long story short, we got very close and started to wonder what it would be like if we got together. I was totally caught up in the emotional aspect of the affair but I also tried to keep my head and approach the situation logically. Was I prepared to end my marriage to be with this woman? How would it affect the kids? I decided that my children would not benefit from me continuing to live with a woman I hated. I still harbor horrible memories of my parents' worst fights and no child should have to endure that.
Judge me if you want. I made the decision that I felt was right for me. I don't deserve to be miserable just for the sake of holding onto some lofty ideal. Also, Brenda and I are a success story. They say that less than one percent of affairs ever make it as long-term relationships, and yet here we are, ten years later.
MARRIAGE #2
The kids from my first marriage loved Brenda. Their mom actually got upset that the kids would come home after visits and talked about how they loved her so much. I tried to make the visits with the kids special, but my ex-wife started complaining that I was being a "Disneyland daddy." When I stopped, though, she just started complaining that the kids came over and I just sat on my ass watching TV with them or whatever.
Sex with Brenda was amazing! She was ravenous and enthusiastic and willing to do anything in bed... including things that my ex-wife refused to do. If I ever had trouble getting ready for her, all she had to do was go down on me and that always did the trick. It was great for her, too... she said sex always hurt her during her first marriage, but I think it was just because she was tense. I taught her that sex wasn't supposed to hurt, and she got to the point where she couldn't get enough of me.
Brenda and I eventually had two kids of our own. I think that's when things started to fall apart. I love them very much, but having kids changed our relationship inexorably. We had about two years to ourselves, and during that time she was fun to be with and sexually insatiable. I totally get that this was the "honeymoon phase" in our relationship and a bit of a decline was inevitable. The decline was unexpectedly steep, though. After Brenda got pregnant the first time, she suddenly hated to be touched at all. When the baby was born, we were both constantly sleep-deprived and cranky. When Danny got older, tending to him basically became my responsibility. I already had experience raising two kids, after all. She has even admitted recently that I did about 95% of his child care. More often than not, she would yell at him to be quiet while she watched TV, and I would retire with him to the play room to get him out of her hair.
Three years ago she wanted to have another baby, and I would always joke that it was her turn to take care of the next one. That never really panned out, though. Sometimes I feel like I'm a live-in babysitter. She goes out with friends to movies, or goes to book club with her mom, or goes to PTA meetings or HOA meetings, and I'm always stuck at home. I've been taking care of kids for half my lifetime and there comes a point where it's exhausting.
The biggest problem I'm having right now is a near-complete lack of sex. Usually once in a 30-60 day period. She has virtually no libido. She is a bottomless well of excuses. She doesn't like feeling squishy afterwards; she's afraid the kids will walk in; she's stressed out from work; I said something earlier in the day to upset her; etc. I have tried multiple approaches. For a while we had a "sex jar" where I had filled out slips of paper describing the things I'd like her to do with me (example: "wait until Bob is in the shower and then join him and seduce him!") and she played along for a little while. She would offer to draw a slip from the jar if I did one of her chores or helped her with a project. Eventually, the slips just piled up and never got fulfilled.
She's on birth control, which I've read can affect her chemistry and cause a low sex drive. She's tried several different ones, but some of them make her feel sick. The other day I just suggested that she get off birth control altogether. Seems like kind of a waste since there's not really anything to control right now anyway. With that said, I really don't want a third child with her.
She says that she's always available for me, but when I initiate sex, she just lays there and waits for it to be over. It's essentially me masturbating, but using her body instead of my hand. So, I suggest that she initiate sex every once in a while, but to her, it's a chore. It's like doing laundry or washing dishes—just one more thing on her to-do list she has to check off. I would like for her to actually desire me, not just lay there while I finish inside her.
Also, she's recently said that sex hurts her and that she doesn't look forward to it. So, basically it's like being with her ex-husband all over again. We've noticed that she's much tighter when it's been a long time, so I think that's one of the reasons. I feel like we're going backwards instead of forwards, though.
She also told me about a year ago that she no longer wants to give me oral sex. Her reasoning for this varies. One time she said that it hurts her jaw. Another time, she said that it makes her gag. Once she told me that she's "just not a go-down-there kind of girl." Funny, considering she was a go-down-there girl when we were having our affair. In her car, in her bed, on the stairs. (In case you're wondering, I would go down on her every day, but lately she's been squeamish about it and has decided she doesn't like it. Again, excuses abound. She's worried she's not clean enough; she's too sensitive; I haven't shaved that day; etc. etc.)
I have never insisted that she let me ejaculate in her mouth. I seriously don't even care if she finishes me off or not. I view going down on me as a loving, intimate act and it bothers me that she's suddenly dug her heels into the ground and decided she doesn't do it anymore. I've read a lot of forums similar to this one and this seems like a really common theme. Woman freely fellates her man while they're dating, and as soon as they get married, she decides it's no longer necessary. Honestly, this makes me want to just up and stop doing things, too. "Oh, sorry. I know I used to clean the cat's litter box, but I don't do that anymore. I'm just not a scoop-the-poop kind of guy."
We talked about this subject once and it got really heated. "Oh, so if I don't suck you, is that a dealbreaker or something?! You're going to go find somebody else to suck you instead?!"
I don't really want our relationship to end. She's funny and intelligent and we get along really well. Aside from the lack of sex, I'm not unhappy with our relationship. Speaking from a strictly practical standpoint, I'm pushing 40 and I really don't want to have to start my life over for a third time. I would hate to think that ten years is just my time frame for relationships. I just want to feel desired on some level. Sometimes I want to ask her if I can just have sex with somebody else so she won't have to worry about it any longer.
So, assuming my goal is to salvage this relationship, what is the best course of action? Is it wishful thinking to ever believe that she will express sexual desire for me in the future? How and why does a woman go from being insatiable to being completely frigid? The complete 180-degree turn she made on oral sex is particularly perplexing. Thanks in advance for reading, and for whatever insight you can provide.
Quigster
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