HI all,
I'd like to share and challenge a notion. I was labeled Codependent by my STBXW. Of course not wanting to dismiss this without just I went ahead and researched this so called affliction, which many claim is a common if not main ingredient in infidelity. So lets take a look shall we and as I make my retorts feel free to do the same as many of you may not fit this label and deserve to have it lifted rather than tolerate another misgiving left behind by your (Our) cheating halves.
Characteristics of Co-dependent People Are:
1)An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others.
I am not responsible for no ones actions but myself and to a degree my children. I have seen many a postings here stating the otherwise. Although I tried to understand her rationale it simply couldn't be understood by me. She did what she did for her own means.
2) A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to "love" people they can pity and rescue.
Who doesn't feel good making others feel better. We do this everyday. There is no true sense of altruism and in the absence of materialism comes the emotional fulfillment of providing aid or filling a need. It is what humans do. If we didn't care about making others happy for our own emotional regard we'd all still be working at a fast food joint rather than pushing ourselves and in conjunction earning the respect of our peers and loved one. If I save an abused animal, is this derived from pity or loving all forms of life. If my partner was indeed put thru hell in an abusive relationship do I not provide the emotional stability and support to assist this persons anxiety. More often than not we come to find out about their past well into or past the initial giddy phase of the relationship, not up front and center, for obvious reasons.
3) A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time
This is often as disguised as it is insidious. And in time it simply becomes the norm. We too often get to this point as we give up trying to get the other party to acknowledge their lack, or our supposed perceived lack, of effort or involvement. It also get the disadvantage of being able to be equated to other tasks we may find more annoying or cumbersome then we wish to accept. For example, I wasn't a fan of going over the bills, although I at least wanted involvement, nor liked certain other aspects of the daily grinds so I had no ill will towards doing the dishes or laundry. It was the resistance to being helped that I was aware of yet felt it futile to argue about it as the job nonetheless needed to get done, not talked about getting done. Sure I worked more hours, or the only hours, yet it was something we agreed upon and she insisted on as she made it clear she liked staying home with the children. Of course this changed now didn't it.
4)A tendency to become hurt when people don't recognize their efforts
Define hurt and give me a gauge of frequency concerning lack of acknowledgement. Did I need a parade every time I took out the trash, no. A simple thank you would do fine. But when a 80+ hour work week has been accomplished I'd like at least a thank you or equal. When this became expected and then later required due to her spending I still did not get offended by it. Chalked it up as needed to pay the damn bills.
5) An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment.
If this is true I wouldn't have filed for Divorce. I would have stayed no matter what she did. I went on a 6 month road job with a morning and night phone call to say hi. I had no anxiety or related "Abandonment" feeling. Sure I was lonely, and horny, but managed this by not straying and flew the family out so we could all spend time together vs just looking forward to spending time with her. I feel great now and it is nearing a month since I KICKED HER OUT!!!!
6) An extreme need for approval and recognition
Again, another human nature acumen. Who doesn't like hearing "Wow, I didn't think x.y.z could be done, nice job??? I mean, if I am not banging on my friends window at 3 AM because of an accomplishment then really what time frame of self assurance is needed and what is it's limit. I suppose living in the past is a bad thing but sometimes pride from past experiences will still resonate and really, who likes focusing on just the bad times of life. We all remember the bad days at work, I like remembering the good ones.
7) A sense of guilt when asserting themselves.
I do not have this problem, but I do admit I was more adherent to the side of compromise. I feel like I need x,y,z yet I know P,D,Q will happen so in a way why bother. Some people have traits or behavior that simply will not change, for anyone, even themselves. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Name one person who hasn't simply just accepted another in spite of this. Besides, I take my Burgers back to the counter if it was made wrong.
8) A compelling need to control others.
I fit this in no way or fashion. Save for my children's behavior. Besides, this conflicts directly with the label from #7. One will supersede the other into obscurity.
9) Lack of trust in self and/or others.
Can attest this is also not me. I know what I can and cannot do. I trusted her until this was rewarded with betrayal. I hesitated to trust in her until certain actions were fulfilled, which invariably never were so the lacking part was justified.
10) Fear of being abandoned or alone
Maybe on this one. I don't fear being alone as in by myself. But I do not like the thought of raising four children by myself. Although so far so good. I like the comfort of no longer having to wonder what the hell she is up to or he secretive lifestyle but I do admit that I feel the void of losing a partner of a 13 year relationship. Who wouldn't. I have seen people get emotional over a show coming to an end or a favorite sports player retiring. I think it can stand to be that I get a little empty about a loss of this magnitude. Hell, ask parent whose children move out how they felt about the chicks leaving the nest.
11) Difficulty identifying feelings
No problem here, with myself or others. Of course I have been labeled as being to sensitive, which I am sure in some twisted way is also codependent. I can just pick up on others rather well and myself, I know me.
12) Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change
I have Documented proof from my prior supervisors recounting my adaptability. I attest to having to grow up poor and with a single Mother but learned change is constant and unforgiving. Of course I may not like change and have a lingering wave of nostalgia, but who doesn't?
13) Problems with intimacy/boundaries
Intimacy, no problems, Boundaries, yes. I let go unchallenged some things in my marriage not as a means of lack of willingness to engage in conflict, but as a means of trust. In her online game world I made no bones about her joking in a mild flirtatious manner and when it grew beyond a means of comfort ability I challenged this and thus the cycle began. Should I have been more aggressive sure, but after a long period of time where trust, however of a mirage it may have been, was present I accepted her statements until I no longer could tolerate them.
14) Chronic anger
No, I have been labeled passive. I get mad but only after being pushed to the limit, a long fuse indeed. I like to laugh and love and whatever stress or anger I had I liked to take out sexually, in a good way.
15) Lying/dishonesty
Yes, I am guilty of the white lies and omission dishonesty. "Do I look fat in this?" "Yes honey, with a double PH, sha-zam!!" I mean really, who answers this with honesty. It's like men asking a woman "Was it good for you? Is it big enough?" You really think she is going to tell the truth, more than likely not and that is what our culture is about these days. Tell me the honesty I want to hear. Most of us shy way from the truth. Although I do prefer to hear what I am doing wrong so I can disarm any ego related attack on my character and actions, tell me I suck once and lets move on, no need to harp the horse to death and beyond.
16) Poor communications
Read my posts and determine for yourselves if I can or cannot communicate. I like to talk but do prefer to avoid a conflict if possible. Not everything needs to be a fight. But If I am feeling one way I will not mask it as another.
17) Difficulty making decisions
Now I know most here, as it is only fair since this forum is the only way we know each other, unless you all want to hang out or something, will point out to the fact that I waited so long to file. I held onto hope, I fought the good fight and made sure that the decision to file for D was one I would not regret since I did fear that maybe, just maybe, the upward swing was just around the corner. When it became obvious that there was no other way and that I was satisfied that I had exhausted everything to salvage my marriage, then I pulled the pin. Hesitation is often seen as a sign of patience and assurance. And although I should have done it sooner, I have no regrets doing it too late and knowing so, rather than too soon and forever leaving any doubt.
And here is a listing of Questions for you to ponder over. Please allow for my answers to reflect my opinion of me.
1. Do you keep quiet to avoid arguments?
Sure, I no need to argue is present or level of productivity can be accomplished.
2. Are you always worried about others' opinions of you?
Not worried but concerned, I may need these others help one day and there willingness to help me will be reflected on by my character and not my need, unless it is child related.
3. Have you ever lived with someone with an alcohol or drug problem?
Sure, but is this "Condition" minimalized when the drug of choice is prescribed? And shouldn't this question be revised as "Have you ever continued to live with" vs just living with them, which gives room to thinking this way of life is indeed normal.
4. Have you ever lived with someone who hits or belittles you?
See revision above, apply it here. And lets not forget about needing a place to go or not losing everything in the process of leaving. Gravitational forces of a relationships intertwining aspects are a powerful force.
5. Are the opinions of others more important than your own?
Depends on my behavior and how it affects others. And vice versa. Kind of a loaded and ambiguous question really.
6. Do you have difficulty adjusting to changes at work or home?
Depends on the level of change. Losing Cinemax or my parking space is different than getting a pay cut and playing " Whose underwear is this in my bed"
7. Do you feel rejected when significant others spend time with friends?
Depends on the friend(s), how much time we have together and many other circumstances. Going to a friends baby shower did nothing to upset me, a week long girls night out in Vegas or Atlantic City is no cool, who wouldn't get upset to some degree. I am not the babysitter and why should I be left home alone.
8. Do you doubt your ability to be who you want to be?
Yes, but not everyone gets to be an astronaut. And sometimes doubt is misinterpreted to being honest with yourself. I consider the latter to be a sign of strength, not weakness.
9. Are you uncomfortable expressing your true feelings to others?
Sometimes you got to be considerate, and sometimes you are allowed to go full bore. Of course timing and place is key and often this is more pertinent than the subject. If it is important enough it won't wait, if it is important but not DEFCON 1 serious it can or may just have to wait till later, which in the long run may be a good thing.
10. Have you ever felt inadequate?
Of course. Sometimes by chance, choice or consequence. I hate seeing my children upset at me for having to go to work, I, like all men, love to believe we are the Bret Hart of lovers (The best there is, the best was, the best there ever will be). Sometimes truth is harsh and we must learn to accept it. A hammer is inadequate for brushing my hair, yet I'd not get frustrated with it so why hold myself to an impossible standard, regardless of anyone else's opinions, in the end my opinion of me is the most important although I cannot dismiss the opinions of others.
11. Do you feel like a "bad person" when you make a mistake?
Yeah, If I made a gambling error and spent the mortgage, Of course I feel like I suck. And being sensitive to someone else's disappointment is not a sign of weakness, but a sign of compassion and understanding, if this is a bad thing we'd better go and reclaim all those charity donations then huh?!!!!
12. Do you have difficulty taking compliments or gifts?
No, but only when warranted. I have no problems asking for a receiving help. Unless your my ex or the other man and then I will have my reservations, but hey, who wouldn't?
13. Do you feel humiliation when your child or spouse makes a mistake?
If it is one that was directly influenced by my guidance or if I am responsible for their actions (Bad information relayed or similar) yes I am. I also make it a point to step in and claim full responsibility for this mistake. Humility is a sign of strength as well. Not to be confused with self pity.
14. Do you think people in your life would go downhill without your constant efforts?
Yes my children, several public service announcements depict this. duh!!!
15. Do you frequently wish someone could help you get things done?
Hell yeah, Many a hands make for a light effort. If I didn't ask for aid or help I'd be labeled OCD or Narcissistic.
16. Do you have difficulty talking to people in authority, such as the police or your boss?
No, But I can tell right away when they are being receptive or not and will not seek this individual out for future issues or conversations if he/she does not understand my concerns.
17. Are you confused about who you are or where you are going with your life?
Of course I am, I was at this time last year in a far different place and truth be told although stagnant, it was comfortable and the norm. If you told me I'd be therapeutically attached to a marriage forum, single father of four, soon to be divorced, and on first shift I'd piss on your boots and apologize for the weather.
18. Do you have trouble saying "no" when asked for help?
Sometimes, I like doing thing for others if I can in the hopes someone would do the same for me if I needed the help. Something I have come to depend on this past year.
19. Do you have trouble asking for help?
Nope, next.
20. Do you have so many things going at once that you can't do justice to any of them?
Yes, I have a job, I am a parent, A pet owner, a home owner, a Vehicle owner, a land owner, was a husband, kinda still am for now, a bill payer, have my own needs however minor, friends, and then there is sleep.......... Yes, sometimes life can suck. I am not dependent on life sucking, I was dependent on having a partner who I could rely on. Instead I was introduced to one who will do anything to escape responsibility all the while charging me with liking the wake of her behavior herein and thereafter.
I am not codependent. Take that Label!!!!
I'd like to share and challenge a notion. I was labeled Codependent by my STBXW. Of course not wanting to dismiss this without just I went ahead and researched this so called affliction, which many claim is a common if not main ingredient in infidelity. So lets take a look shall we and as I make my retorts feel free to do the same as many of you may not fit this label and deserve to have it lifted rather than tolerate another misgiving left behind by your (Our) cheating halves.
Characteristics of Co-dependent People Are:
1)An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others.
I am not responsible for no ones actions but myself and to a degree my children. I have seen many a postings here stating the otherwise. Although I tried to understand her rationale it simply couldn't be understood by me. She did what she did for her own means.
2) A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to "love" people they can pity and rescue.
Who doesn't feel good making others feel better. We do this everyday. There is no true sense of altruism and in the absence of materialism comes the emotional fulfillment of providing aid or filling a need. It is what humans do. If we didn't care about making others happy for our own emotional regard we'd all still be working at a fast food joint rather than pushing ourselves and in conjunction earning the respect of our peers and loved one. If I save an abused animal, is this derived from pity or loving all forms of life. If my partner was indeed put thru hell in an abusive relationship do I not provide the emotional stability and support to assist this persons anxiety. More often than not we come to find out about their past well into or past the initial giddy phase of the relationship, not up front and center, for obvious reasons.
3) A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time
This is often as disguised as it is insidious. And in time it simply becomes the norm. We too often get to this point as we give up trying to get the other party to acknowledge their lack, or our supposed perceived lack, of effort or involvement. It also get the disadvantage of being able to be equated to other tasks we may find more annoying or cumbersome then we wish to accept. For example, I wasn't a fan of going over the bills, although I at least wanted involvement, nor liked certain other aspects of the daily grinds so I had no ill will towards doing the dishes or laundry. It was the resistance to being helped that I was aware of yet felt it futile to argue about it as the job nonetheless needed to get done, not talked about getting done. Sure I worked more hours, or the only hours, yet it was something we agreed upon and she insisted on as she made it clear she liked staying home with the children. Of course this changed now didn't it.
4)A tendency to become hurt when people don't recognize their efforts
Define hurt and give me a gauge of frequency concerning lack of acknowledgement. Did I need a parade every time I took out the trash, no. A simple thank you would do fine. But when a 80+ hour work week has been accomplished I'd like at least a thank you or equal. When this became expected and then later required due to her spending I still did not get offended by it. Chalked it up as needed to pay the damn bills.
5) An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment.
If this is true I wouldn't have filed for Divorce. I would have stayed no matter what she did. I went on a 6 month road job with a morning and night phone call to say hi. I had no anxiety or related "Abandonment" feeling. Sure I was lonely, and horny, but managed this by not straying and flew the family out so we could all spend time together vs just looking forward to spending time with her. I feel great now and it is nearing a month since I KICKED HER OUT!!!!
6) An extreme need for approval and recognition
Again, another human nature acumen. Who doesn't like hearing "Wow, I didn't think x.y.z could be done, nice job??? I mean, if I am not banging on my friends window at 3 AM because of an accomplishment then really what time frame of self assurance is needed and what is it's limit. I suppose living in the past is a bad thing but sometimes pride from past experiences will still resonate and really, who likes focusing on just the bad times of life. We all remember the bad days at work, I like remembering the good ones.
7) A sense of guilt when asserting themselves.
I do not have this problem, but I do admit I was more adherent to the side of compromise. I feel like I need x,y,z yet I know P,D,Q will happen so in a way why bother. Some people have traits or behavior that simply will not change, for anyone, even themselves. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Name one person who hasn't simply just accepted another in spite of this. Besides, I take my Burgers back to the counter if it was made wrong.
8) A compelling need to control others.
I fit this in no way or fashion. Save for my children's behavior. Besides, this conflicts directly with the label from #7. One will supersede the other into obscurity.
9) Lack of trust in self and/or others.
Can attest this is also not me. I know what I can and cannot do. I trusted her until this was rewarded with betrayal. I hesitated to trust in her until certain actions were fulfilled, which invariably never were so the lacking part was justified.
10) Fear of being abandoned or alone
Maybe on this one. I don't fear being alone as in by myself. But I do not like the thought of raising four children by myself. Although so far so good. I like the comfort of no longer having to wonder what the hell she is up to or he secretive lifestyle but I do admit that I feel the void of losing a partner of a 13 year relationship. Who wouldn't. I have seen people get emotional over a show coming to an end or a favorite sports player retiring. I think it can stand to be that I get a little empty about a loss of this magnitude. Hell, ask parent whose children move out how they felt about the chicks leaving the nest.
11) Difficulty identifying feelings
No problem here, with myself or others. Of course I have been labeled as being to sensitive, which I am sure in some twisted way is also codependent. I can just pick up on others rather well and myself, I know me.
12) Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change
I have Documented proof from my prior supervisors recounting my adaptability. I attest to having to grow up poor and with a single Mother but learned change is constant and unforgiving. Of course I may not like change and have a lingering wave of nostalgia, but who doesn't?
13) Problems with intimacy/boundaries
Intimacy, no problems, Boundaries, yes. I let go unchallenged some things in my marriage not as a means of lack of willingness to engage in conflict, but as a means of trust. In her online game world I made no bones about her joking in a mild flirtatious manner and when it grew beyond a means of comfort ability I challenged this and thus the cycle began. Should I have been more aggressive sure, but after a long period of time where trust, however of a mirage it may have been, was present I accepted her statements until I no longer could tolerate them.
14) Chronic anger
No, I have been labeled passive. I get mad but only after being pushed to the limit, a long fuse indeed. I like to laugh and love and whatever stress or anger I had I liked to take out sexually, in a good way.
15) Lying/dishonesty
Yes, I am guilty of the white lies and omission dishonesty. "Do I look fat in this?" "Yes honey, with a double PH, sha-zam!!" I mean really, who answers this with honesty. It's like men asking a woman "Was it good for you? Is it big enough?" You really think she is going to tell the truth, more than likely not and that is what our culture is about these days. Tell me the honesty I want to hear. Most of us shy way from the truth. Although I do prefer to hear what I am doing wrong so I can disarm any ego related attack on my character and actions, tell me I suck once and lets move on, no need to harp the horse to death and beyond.
16) Poor communications
Read my posts and determine for yourselves if I can or cannot communicate. I like to talk but do prefer to avoid a conflict if possible. Not everything needs to be a fight. But If I am feeling one way I will not mask it as another.
17) Difficulty making decisions
Now I know most here, as it is only fair since this forum is the only way we know each other, unless you all want to hang out or something, will point out to the fact that I waited so long to file. I held onto hope, I fought the good fight and made sure that the decision to file for D was one I would not regret since I did fear that maybe, just maybe, the upward swing was just around the corner. When it became obvious that there was no other way and that I was satisfied that I had exhausted everything to salvage my marriage, then I pulled the pin. Hesitation is often seen as a sign of patience and assurance. And although I should have done it sooner, I have no regrets doing it too late and knowing so, rather than too soon and forever leaving any doubt.
And here is a listing of Questions for you to ponder over. Please allow for my answers to reflect my opinion of me.
1. Do you keep quiet to avoid arguments?
Sure, I no need to argue is present or level of productivity can be accomplished.
2. Are you always worried about others' opinions of you?
Not worried but concerned, I may need these others help one day and there willingness to help me will be reflected on by my character and not my need, unless it is child related.
3. Have you ever lived with someone with an alcohol or drug problem?
Sure, but is this "Condition" minimalized when the drug of choice is prescribed? And shouldn't this question be revised as "Have you ever continued to live with" vs just living with them, which gives room to thinking this way of life is indeed normal.
4. Have you ever lived with someone who hits or belittles you?
See revision above, apply it here. And lets not forget about needing a place to go or not losing everything in the process of leaving. Gravitational forces of a relationships intertwining aspects are a powerful force.
5. Are the opinions of others more important than your own?
Depends on my behavior and how it affects others. And vice versa. Kind of a loaded and ambiguous question really.
6. Do you have difficulty adjusting to changes at work or home?
Depends on the level of change. Losing Cinemax or my parking space is different than getting a pay cut and playing " Whose underwear is this in my bed"
7. Do you feel rejected when significant others spend time with friends?
Depends on the friend(s), how much time we have together and many other circumstances. Going to a friends baby shower did nothing to upset me, a week long girls night out in Vegas or Atlantic City is no cool, who wouldn't get upset to some degree. I am not the babysitter and why should I be left home alone.
8. Do you doubt your ability to be who you want to be?
Yes, but not everyone gets to be an astronaut. And sometimes doubt is misinterpreted to being honest with yourself. I consider the latter to be a sign of strength, not weakness.
9. Are you uncomfortable expressing your true feelings to others?
Sometimes you got to be considerate, and sometimes you are allowed to go full bore. Of course timing and place is key and often this is more pertinent than the subject. If it is important enough it won't wait, if it is important but not DEFCON 1 serious it can or may just have to wait till later, which in the long run may be a good thing.
10. Have you ever felt inadequate?
Of course. Sometimes by chance, choice or consequence. I hate seeing my children upset at me for having to go to work, I, like all men, love to believe we are the Bret Hart of lovers (The best there is, the best was, the best there ever will be). Sometimes truth is harsh and we must learn to accept it. A hammer is inadequate for brushing my hair, yet I'd not get frustrated with it so why hold myself to an impossible standard, regardless of anyone else's opinions, in the end my opinion of me is the most important although I cannot dismiss the opinions of others.
11. Do you feel like a "bad person" when you make a mistake?
Yeah, If I made a gambling error and spent the mortgage, Of course I feel like I suck. And being sensitive to someone else's disappointment is not a sign of weakness, but a sign of compassion and understanding, if this is a bad thing we'd better go and reclaim all those charity donations then huh?!!!!
12. Do you have difficulty taking compliments or gifts?
No, but only when warranted. I have no problems asking for a receiving help. Unless your my ex or the other man and then I will have my reservations, but hey, who wouldn't?
13. Do you feel humiliation when your child or spouse makes a mistake?
If it is one that was directly influenced by my guidance or if I am responsible for their actions (Bad information relayed or similar) yes I am. I also make it a point to step in and claim full responsibility for this mistake. Humility is a sign of strength as well. Not to be confused with self pity.
14. Do you think people in your life would go downhill without your constant efforts?
Yes my children, several public service announcements depict this. duh!!!
15. Do you frequently wish someone could help you get things done?
Hell yeah, Many a hands make for a light effort. If I didn't ask for aid or help I'd be labeled OCD or Narcissistic.
16. Do you have difficulty talking to people in authority, such as the police or your boss?
No, But I can tell right away when they are being receptive or not and will not seek this individual out for future issues or conversations if he/she does not understand my concerns.
17. Are you confused about who you are or where you are going with your life?
Of course I am, I was at this time last year in a far different place and truth be told although stagnant, it was comfortable and the norm. If you told me I'd be therapeutically attached to a marriage forum, single father of four, soon to be divorced, and on first shift I'd piss on your boots and apologize for the weather.
18. Do you have trouble saying "no" when asked for help?
Sometimes, I like doing thing for others if I can in the hopes someone would do the same for me if I needed the help. Something I have come to depend on this past year.
19. Do you have trouble asking for help?
Nope, next.
20. Do you have so many things going at once that you can't do justice to any of them?
Yes, I have a job, I am a parent, A pet owner, a home owner, a Vehicle owner, a land owner, was a husband, kinda still am for now, a bill payer, have my own needs however minor, friends, and then there is sleep.......... Yes, sometimes life can suck. I am not dependent on life sucking, I was dependent on having a partner who I could rely on. Instead I was introduced to one who will do anything to escape responsibility all the while charging me with liking the wake of her behavior herein and thereafter.
I am not codependent. Take that Label!!!!
Put the internet to work for you.
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