I wanted to give an update after almost 1 year has flown by (I can't believe how fast the time went!). I also want to get some more advice. My original thread can be found at:
http://ift.tt/1LRvOPE
This is LONG – Sorry in advance to any who manage to wade through it all!
So, first of all, I have had Parkinson's Disease (PD) for about 6 years now. I think I'm doing quite well (my doctors agree), but there are always "issues" to deal with for anyone who has PD. One of the main ones is lack of sleep. That's the main reason why I have the time to stay up and "lurk" on TAM, and some other similar sites. My wife absolutely HATES my "research". She sees no value in looking at posts from other people going through the same (or very similar) issues. I've printed out a couple of threads over the past year. She does read them, but the response is usually something along the lines of "if you really want to make yourself, and us, totally miserable, by all means, stay up all night and surf the web…". No offence meant to the (helpful?!?) TAM posters, but she might well have a point. That's why I've not posted anything before now. I've read, read, and READ everything I could possibly find that I thought might help. So far, nothing has.
As stated in replies to my original post, it seems to be true that the LD (for lack of a better description) partner just doesn't seem to see how important this issue is. I think that's particularly true where the man is HD and the woman LD (that's the most common scenario, right?). That said, my wife really has tried over the past year, and I have certainly made just about every mistake posted in this section (despite reading about them AND recognizing them after the fact) in trying to resolve our issues. We haven't gone back to a MC since we both thought/think our first try with an MFC (who supposedly specialized in "intimacy problems") was not only a waste of $$$, but also may actually have made the situation worse.
My mistakes:
1) Threatening with the big-D (probably my biggest "head up my arse" blunder), when I didn't really ever intend to go down that path.
2) Bringing up the past, despite promising that we'd let the past stay in the past and move forward.
3) Being inconsistent: I'd write late night love letters one night, then, a few nights later, we'd have one of our regular (at least 1/week) "discussions" (nearly always negative), where I'd say things I knew would be hurtful.
4) Withholding intimacy when angry, for "revenge".
5) Talking and then not following through (saying we "need a break", then getting angry after a week with no sex).
6) Twisting my wife's words to interpret them (and her actions) in the most negative and harmful way.
7) After having a "quickie" I've said it was "horrible" for me and that I just can't get into it unless we have some time to get each other worked up first. Yeah, I know, I'm the GUY, so I have this bass ackwards!
I could certainly make this list longer. You get the picture! I've made many mistakes during the past year…
So, why is an idiot like me posting after almost 1 year, especially when:
a) I question how much reading TAM (and others) has/could help, or perhaps even made things worse.
b) I didn't actually follow through on much of the advice I've read on TAM, and have made many of the same mistakes I've read about, even though I should have known better.
Why post? Well, I'm hoping for some help ASAP.
The short version: We've averaged MAYBE once every 2 weeks for the past 1 year since I first posted, and we've been working on this problem the whole time. My wife has gotten more vocal and active (both things I've requested). She's even initiated several times (and I've turned her down twice, once out of anger, once because I knew I was just too tired to perform well). There have been a couple of times where I thought she was very close to having an O (from just PIV – that's all we ever do), but for some reason neither of us could keep it going long enough. She claims that she HAS had several "O's", but she's just not the type to "scream OMG and shake the bed…". I, again stupid me, have asked: "How do you know you've had an O if you've never given yourself one (she NEVER masturbates, and to the best of my knowledge never has)?" Then I quoted THE statistic: "only 10-20% of women can orgasm through PIV alone". So, basically, I've told her that I don't believe her when she says she's had an O. Yes, stupid I know. It's just that I really don't think she has. I mean, how would she (or I) know for sure? It doesn't help that (almost 20 years ago) I was with a couple of girls (we were in our early 20's – I was still a "kid" mentally) who had those Earth shaking, whole body convulsing, screaming BIG-O's when I gave them oral (my wife absolutely HATES oral). My wife says I'm obsessed 24 hours/day with giving her that elusive "O". She says she's completely happy with me (but I'm her only "data point", a sample of one!). Before anyone asks, yes, I'm sure she has NEVER cheated and has only had any kind of sex with me. We almost always only use good-ol' missionary, at least always starting and ending that way, with an occasional, brief bit of "cowgirl". I've still never had a BJ in my life (now in my early 50's). The wife has said more than once (when really angry) "if that's what you want, go the F*** down-town and get yourself one – maybe then you'll stop nagging me about it, 'cause I'm NEVER going to do THAT". I've tried to explain just how hurtful that statement was, but she just doesn't see it. She tried giving me a HJ once, but it was SOOO damned awkward for both of us that I told her to stop after a couple of minutes. I was crystal clear to me that she really had no desire to do that, but forced herself to do so because our MFC said she should try. I've bought toys – she's never let me use them. Ok, I did try a mini-Hitachi vib. ONCE. It was a disaster, and she's said she's never trying it again. She says that she's "open" to trying "new things", but she can't because before she's ready to "move forward" we have another argument and go back to square one. So it's my fault! If I'd only waited a little longer, given her a little more time, more "breathing room", it would have happened. After every argument (they're happening more frequently now as I'm becoming more critical and impatient) it's like a virtual "reset" button gets pushed (in her mind), and we start all over.
HELP!!!
Yes, I've done really STUPID things, but I'm impatient. She's going to (likely) hit menopause in a few years (she's a decade younger than me) and my PD symptoms will get worse (although that hopefully won't affect the bedroom dept. too much – don't know though!). We just don't seem to break this cycle, despite trying both long (3-4 week) breaks to "recharge and focus on our intimacy" and having regular "quickies" to keep things going. No, not at the same time – I mean we've swung the pendulum to both ends, trying to find something, ANYTHING that would work.
We had another big fight last night. I did everything I could think of to get us in the mood, cuddling on the couch (kids off early to bed), messaging her neck, back, feet. We kissed, we held each other, I got the bed ready and warmed up the bedroom (she hates being naked and cold – I get it). We watched a funny, romantic comedy series on Hulu. I shut the TV off and suggested she get ready for bed (a 20 min. nightly process). I left her alone for that time (she absolutely hates it if I'm around during her "private time"). She then got into bed in her flannel PJ's (oh SOO NOT sexy, despite being from V-Secret's). She told me that I could "shut the heat off so it wouldn't be too hot for me when I went to bed later…". Ok, disclaimer: because of the PD I need much less sleep than her (it's VERY common amongst PD patients). I almost always go to bed later than my wife does. I stay up and read or play keyboards or guitar, etc. Needless to say, nothing was going to happen (and didn't). During the ensuing argument, she made it clear that if I'd planned on having sex I should have "used my words" (that's what she says to our 5 year old!) and told her that clearly. I THOUGHT I was being totally clear through my ACTIONS. I guess not!
I LOVE my wife and my kids. In general I love my life (despite my illness, and a tendency for it plus the meds. to cause depression – sad and mourning for Robin Williams, wish he'd gotten some help!).
Sorry for the LONG post. I just don't know what to do anymore. I really don't think she's going to EVER change, so my options (all bad) are:
1) Live with things the way they are and suppress (somehow?) my desire for intimacy. Ok, this is the path I've read that several long-time TAM posters (you know who I mean) have taken.
2) Live with things the way they are and meet my needs elsewhere – going "downtown" as my wife put it. Frankly, I have NO desire to do this! I know I could never cheat on her either.
3) Throw away EVERYTHING I've worked for most of my life (wife, kids, house, basically everything that's GOOD in my life), and leave her (and likely the kids + house) to live in some crappy studio apartment and seldom see my kids. Seen my parents go that route. I vowed I'd never do that!
Why is something the experts say takes up only about 2-3% of our time (i.e. SEX) so important to some of us? Sometimes I think I should just "cut 'em off" and be over it. Some of you will say I already have (cut them off that is, not get over it)! I'm in real emotional PAIN and I don't know what to do.
BTW: Despite PD, I'm in the best shape of my life (to keep PD symptoms under control I exercise like never before). Other mom's I've talked with at the kid's schools have come out and told me I'm looking good. No, I'm not stupid enough to think they were flirting, just meant to boost my ego a bit (they know about the PD). I've done part of the "180" thing, working out (I was never in bad shape or over-weight anyway), dressing nicer, focusing on hobbies. I've always tried to make the physical surroundings in our lives as nice as we could afford. I try to be an active, supporting father and husband. So, what am I doing wrong? How can I "fix" this? Is that even likely at this point?
http://ift.tt/1LRvOPE
This is LONG – Sorry in advance to any who manage to wade through it all!
So, first of all, I have had Parkinson's Disease (PD) for about 6 years now. I think I'm doing quite well (my doctors agree), but there are always "issues" to deal with for anyone who has PD. One of the main ones is lack of sleep. That's the main reason why I have the time to stay up and "lurk" on TAM, and some other similar sites. My wife absolutely HATES my "research". She sees no value in looking at posts from other people going through the same (or very similar) issues. I've printed out a couple of threads over the past year. She does read them, but the response is usually something along the lines of "if you really want to make yourself, and us, totally miserable, by all means, stay up all night and surf the web…". No offence meant to the (helpful?!?) TAM posters, but she might well have a point. That's why I've not posted anything before now. I've read, read, and READ everything I could possibly find that I thought might help. So far, nothing has.
As stated in replies to my original post, it seems to be true that the LD (for lack of a better description) partner just doesn't seem to see how important this issue is. I think that's particularly true where the man is HD and the woman LD (that's the most common scenario, right?). That said, my wife really has tried over the past year, and I have certainly made just about every mistake posted in this section (despite reading about them AND recognizing them after the fact) in trying to resolve our issues. We haven't gone back to a MC since we both thought/think our first try with an MFC (who supposedly specialized in "intimacy problems") was not only a waste of $$$, but also may actually have made the situation worse.
My mistakes:
1) Threatening with the big-D (probably my biggest "head up my arse" blunder), when I didn't really ever intend to go down that path.
2) Bringing up the past, despite promising that we'd let the past stay in the past and move forward.
3) Being inconsistent: I'd write late night love letters one night, then, a few nights later, we'd have one of our regular (at least 1/week) "discussions" (nearly always negative), where I'd say things I knew would be hurtful.
4) Withholding intimacy when angry, for "revenge".
5) Talking and then not following through (saying we "need a break", then getting angry after a week with no sex).
6) Twisting my wife's words to interpret them (and her actions) in the most negative and harmful way.
7) After having a "quickie" I've said it was "horrible" for me and that I just can't get into it unless we have some time to get each other worked up first. Yeah, I know, I'm the GUY, so I have this bass ackwards!
I could certainly make this list longer. You get the picture! I've made many mistakes during the past year…
So, why is an idiot like me posting after almost 1 year, especially when:
a) I question how much reading TAM (and others) has/could help, or perhaps even made things worse.
b) I didn't actually follow through on much of the advice I've read on TAM, and have made many of the same mistakes I've read about, even though I should have known better.
Why post? Well, I'm hoping for some help ASAP.
The short version: We've averaged MAYBE once every 2 weeks for the past 1 year since I first posted, and we've been working on this problem the whole time. My wife has gotten more vocal and active (both things I've requested). She's even initiated several times (and I've turned her down twice, once out of anger, once because I knew I was just too tired to perform well). There have been a couple of times where I thought she was very close to having an O (from just PIV – that's all we ever do), but for some reason neither of us could keep it going long enough. She claims that she HAS had several "O's", but she's just not the type to "scream OMG and shake the bed…". I, again stupid me, have asked: "How do you know you've had an O if you've never given yourself one (she NEVER masturbates, and to the best of my knowledge never has)?" Then I quoted THE statistic: "only 10-20% of women can orgasm through PIV alone". So, basically, I've told her that I don't believe her when she says she's had an O. Yes, stupid I know. It's just that I really don't think she has. I mean, how would she (or I) know for sure? It doesn't help that (almost 20 years ago) I was with a couple of girls (we were in our early 20's – I was still a "kid" mentally) who had those Earth shaking, whole body convulsing, screaming BIG-O's when I gave them oral (my wife absolutely HATES oral). My wife says I'm obsessed 24 hours/day with giving her that elusive "O". She says she's completely happy with me (but I'm her only "data point", a sample of one!). Before anyone asks, yes, I'm sure she has NEVER cheated and has only had any kind of sex with me. We almost always only use good-ol' missionary, at least always starting and ending that way, with an occasional, brief bit of "cowgirl". I've still never had a BJ in my life (now in my early 50's). The wife has said more than once (when really angry) "if that's what you want, go the F*** down-town and get yourself one – maybe then you'll stop nagging me about it, 'cause I'm NEVER going to do THAT". I've tried to explain just how hurtful that statement was, but she just doesn't see it. She tried giving me a HJ once, but it was SOOO damned awkward for both of us that I told her to stop after a couple of minutes. I was crystal clear to me that she really had no desire to do that, but forced herself to do so because our MFC said she should try. I've bought toys – she's never let me use them. Ok, I did try a mini-Hitachi vib. ONCE. It was a disaster, and she's said she's never trying it again. She says that she's "open" to trying "new things", but she can't because before she's ready to "move forward" we have another argument and go back to square one. So it's my fault! If I'd only waited a little longer, given her a little more time, more "breathing room", it would have happened. After every argument (they're happening more frequently now as I'm becoming more critical and impatient) it's like a virtual "reset" button gets pushed (in her mind), and we start all over.
HELP!!!
Yes, I've done really STUPID things, but I'm impatient. She's going to (likely) hit menopause in a few years (she's a decade younger than me) and my PD symptoms will get worse (although that hopefully won't affect the bedroom dept. too much – don't know though!). We just don't seem to break this cycle, despite trying both long (3-4 week) breaks to "recharge and focus on our intimacy" and having regular "quickies" to keep things going. No, not at the same time – I mean we've swung the pendulum to both ends, trying to find something, ANYTHING that would work.
We had another big fight last night. I did everything I could think of to get us in the mood, cuddling on the couch (kids off early to bed), messaging her neck, back, feet. We kissed, we held each other, I got the bed ready and warmed up the bedroom (she hates being naked and cold – I get it). We watched a funny, romantic comedy series on Hulu. I shut the TV off and suggested she get ready for bed (a 20 min. nightly process). I left her alone for that time (she absolutely hates it if I'm around during her "private time"). She then got into bed in her flannel PJ's (oh SOO NOT sexy, despite being from V-Secret's). She told me that I could "shut the heat off so it wouldn't be too hot for me when I went to bed later…". Ok, disclaimer: because of the PD I need much less sleep than her (it's VERY common amongst PD patients). I almost always go to bed later than my wife does. I stay up and read or play keyboards or guitar, etc. Needless to say, nothing was going to happen (and didn't). During the ensuing argument, she made it clear that if I'd planned on having sex I should have "used my words" (that's what she says to our 5 year old!) and told her that clearly. I THOUGHT I was being totally clear through my ACTIONS. I guess not!
I LOVE my wife and my kids. In general I love my life (despite my illness, and a tendency for it plus the meds. to cause depression – sad and mourning for Robin Williams, wish he'd gotten some help!).
Sorry for the LONG post. I just don't know what to do anymore. I really don't think she's going to EVER change, so my options (all bad) are:
1) Live with things the way they are and suppress (somehow?) my desire for intimacy. Ok, this is the path I've read that several long-time TAM posters (you know who I mean) have taken.
2) Live with things the way they are and meet my needs elsewhere – going "downtown" as my wife put it. Frankly, I have NO desire to do this! I know I could never cheat on her either.
3) Throw away EVERYTHING I've worked for most of my life (wife, kids, house, basically everything that's GOOD in my life), and leave her (and likely the kids + house) to live in some crappy studio apartment and seldom see my kids. Seen my parents go that route. I vowed I'd never do that!
Why is something the experts say takes up only about 2-3% of our time (i.e. SEX) so important to some of us? Sometimes I think I should just "cut 'em off" and be over it. Some of you will say I already have (cut them off that is, not get over it)! I'm in real emotional PAIN and I don't know what to do.
BTW: Despite PD, I'm in the best shape of my life (to keep PD symptoms under control I exercise like never before). Other mom's I've talked with at the kid's schools have come out and told me I'm looking good. No, I'm not stupid enough to think they were flirting, just meant to boost my ego a bit (they know about the PD). I've done part of the "180" thing, working out (I was never in bad shape or over-weight anyway), dressing nicer, focusing on hobbies. I've always tried to make the physical surroundings in our lives as nice as we could afford. I try to be an active, supporting father and husband. So, what am I doing wrong? How can I "fix" this? Is that even likely at this point?
Put the internet to work for you.
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