At my wits end.
I am truly hoping there are those out there who can help me figure that out. Or at the very least, offer feedback so as to keep my from going insane with this stuff.
Quick synopses:
Wife very LD. I am HD. Has stated that sex has simply never been a "high priority" for her. Stated that sex "has always stressed her out". She has BPD and with it - the ever present irrationality, rage, blame, and all the unpredictability that ensues.
Sex over the years started good. Albeit I was far more experienced and freer with my sexuality and truly enjoyed an entire life of wonderful sex and intimacy. At first, she seemed so happy like she was brought into a world of color. That said, I really loved her and she to this day does something to me that no other woman has. I still desire her as much today (if not more) than long ago.
So fast forward.
Sex soon after marriage and kids, began to seriously take a turn. Frequency fell off dramatically. She indeed did showcase a lack of desire and as she mentioned it was not even on the radar to some degree. That said we continued to have sex AND we were both enjoying it. In fact, WHEN we had sex..even if she did not seem to be fully there at first she really got there during.
I have ALWAYS been the one who needed to initiate. She would NEVER since day one.
This was the first time I had ever experienced that to such a dramatic degree. I talked about it and she just said that I would have to she just could not. SO I did. And over the years I was thus rejected more and more
In fact it seemed like I was set up to be somewhat "controlled" that way.
I was the one who wanted a wonderful and happy and intimate sex life. (she would at least SAY she agreed)
SHE, because of ME being the one who initiated, suggested, asked seemed to be the one who thus controlled the when and if.
We even went thru a point where she actually took sex off the table all together. (painful time).
I hung in there. I do love her. I do want us to stay together.
But this became truly unbearable. In fact, while the no sex was almost impossible to accept and deal with, the lack of affection, touch, kindness and appreciation. Was excruciating. She vaguely stated that there was none of that forthcoming, so as to not wrongly signify an overt or purposed lead up to sex.
So about half a year ago I (even to me) found myself at wits end. I really found myself calmly coming to a realization that I could not go on this way. Did not want to end my marriage or my family. But was equally at a point that something had to happen.
And then?
She reintroduced sex back into our marriage. (huh??)
I was happy but there was a part of me that was thrown a bit if not a bit angry.
So..just like that? What? So, WHY could we not have found a way to get back to here far before now?
But here is the thing.
The VERY first time after it was back on the table that I then initiated I was met at best with a hesitant or reluctant ok.
The second time (weeks apart) She said that I was now "pushing" or "pressuring". (WHAT!?)
To be clear I do NOT do that.
In fact have learned that the very best way to initiate is the most subtle possible. It almost has to be that I cannot showcase "too much" desire. I try to put it hardly out there. Text. Suggest maybe dinner out. Etc. I suppose part of it is as well to reduce the all too often pain of rejection.
So we have continued to have some sex. (average of couple times a month) BUT it has to be HIGHLY orchestrated and almost "by accident".
She has resumed the NO initiation again. SO I am left to do that.
In the first few months she was open enough to even quasi initiate so much as to meet the suggestions for a nice weekend or night with some dialog or interest.
Then it became a situation where if we made love at one point and it was a nice time. Enjoyable time away..etc IF a couple weeks even later I suggested we do again was met with anger. Suggestion that "we JUST did" ."it's never enough" "I knew this would happen" ."you are pressuring me"
Now let me be REALLY clear again. I do not and have not EVER pressured for sex. So THAT is a really tough statement to hear. AND I clearly wince each time.
SO ---all this leads me up to the recent incidence I need some people to help me understand or dissect.
We were "in agreement" to have sex about 2 weeks ago one night. AS we go to the night she announced she was too tired. I said ok (was disappointed) but let it go. She said how about tomorrow night.
Tomorrow night arrives -I suggest we go out to a nice dinner.
As the day goes on she seems bent on us getting into an argument. Any argument. About ANYTHING
I avoid it..so she simply makes and issue up to get angry at me. Preposterous at that. But you guessed it dinner she calls off. And so is any possibility of sex.
Fast forward to last night.
We had a REALLY nice day together. (rare in a BPD world). Went out to lunch at a favorite place. Took a walk. Had a great time talking about us, future, etc Was truly great close. Even held hands and kissed a bit. We told each other how much we loved one another etc. This continued thru the day.
Later on way home I suggested we carve out some time for us later.
She said "OK. But I won't want to if I wind up tired later".
I inside was thinking "what?" Now predicting tired? But I let it go and said something like "ok if so we at some point really should try to figure out a way we can find time for us when not so tired"
Anyway the early evening came.
I finished all the tasks for the day picked up and shuttled the kids here and there..came home and she said she needed wine. So I headed BACK out to get some. (my wife from day ONE has ALWAYS needed alcohol when having sex. I have asked and she has stated that "sex has always stressed her out".."alcohol reduces her stress")
I return with it.
Eventually she heads up to bed.
I follow shortly afterward.
We lie in bed and talk about anything she wants to for over an hour. (this is ALWAYS the case. IF I make a move "to soon"..she get angry. It is almost as though sex needs to be NOT overtly stated. IN some odd way I cannot SHOW my desire to her. (Which is a complete mystery to me as ME HAVING desire for her I would think would be a good thing(???)
Anyway usually the sex starts with me eventually starting to caress or begin to take her top off. I am a very attentive lover so I do not rush into anything and she eventually does get very responsive.
This night..after talking about things she states that "she is not going to be able to "be there" tonight"
"too stressed.."
I asked her why she was stressed? Then she dropped the horrible statement on me. " I feel pressured" ."I am not into it tonight for whatever reason"..
And I was REALLY nice about it. But she would not STOP being really angry and almost made up pissed. And saying some really nasty things. I kept asking what is wrong? Why are you stressed? WHAT in the world could I have possibly done to make you feel pressure?
I also at least said "I do not feel that I did anything wrong. I had a great and intimate day with you I felt GREAT feelings for you and I wanted to make love to you"
Her answer? "you just need a release" ."you are like all men"
I was really shocked at this stuff. But I stayed calm and said "what is driving this"?
She said that she decided she was not "in a good spot to have se" and that I need to respect that.
I said I really do respect that..I do NOT want to if she does not. But WHY all this ugliness? WHY or WHAT or HOW could she possibly feel like I did anything wrong or caused her to feel pressure??
I asked "when did you feel pressure"?
She said "the moment you first asked".
SO everyone PLEASE help me with this
SHE will not initiate. I am left to do that. I HARDLY ask anywhere NEAR the frequency commiserate when I feel sexual or desire her.
I am VERY careful to ONLY suggest when there MIGHT be a possibility.
I am turned down or excuses are eventually made/arguments manufactured approximately 90% of the time even at that.
SO PLEASE if anyone especially any women can weigh in on what this is.
My sanity is at stake...(said only partly in jest...)
I am truly hoping there are those out there who can help me figure that out. Or at the very least, offer feedback so as to keep my from going insane with this stuff.
Quick synopses:
Wife very LD. I am HD. Has stated that sex has simply never been a "high priority" for her. Stated that sex "has always stressed her out". She has BPD and with it - the ever present irrationality, rage, blame, and all the unpredictability that ensues.
Sex over the years started good. Albeit I was far more experienced and freer with my sexuality and truly enjoyed an entire life of wonderful sex and intimacy. At first, she seemed so happy like she was brought into a world of color. That said, I really loved her and she to this day does something to me that no other woman has. I still desire her as much today (if not more) than long ago.
So fast forward.
Sex soon after marriage and kids, began to seriously take a turn. Frequency fell off dramatically. She indeed did showcase a lack of desire and as she mentioned it was not even on the radar to some degree. That said we continued to have sex AND we were both enjoying it. In fact, WHEN we had sex..even if she did not seem to be fully there at first she really got there during.
I have ALWAYS been the one who needed to initiate. She would NEVER since day one.
This was the first time I had ever experienced that to such a dramatic degree. I talked about it and she just said that I would have to she just could not. SO I did. And over the years I was thus rejected more and more
In fact it seemed like I was set up to be somewhat "controlled" that way.
I was the one who wanted a wonderful and happy and intimate sex life. (she would at least SAY she agreed)
SHE, because of ME being the one who initiated, suggested, asked seemed to be the one who thus controlled the when and if.
We even went thru a point where she actually took sex off the table all together. (painful time).
I hung in there. I do love her. I do want us to stay together.
But this became truly unbearable. In fact, while the no sex was almost impossible to accept and deal with, the lack of affection, touch, kindness and appreciation. Was excruciating. She vaguely stated that there was none of that forthcoming, so as to not wrongly signify an overt or purposed lead up to sex.
So about half a year ago I (even to me) found myself at wits end. I really found myself calmly coming to a realization that I could not go on this way. Did not want to end my marriage or my family. But was equally at a point that something had to happen.
And then?
She reintroduced sex back into our marriage. (huh??)
I was happy but there was a part of me that was thrown a bit if not a bit angry.
So..just like that? What? So, WHY could we not have found a way to get back to here far before now?
But here is the thing.
The VERY first time after it was back on the table that I then initiated I was met at best with a hesitant or reluctant ok.
The second time (weeks apart) She said that I was now "pushing" or "pressuring". (WHAT!?)
To be clear I do NOT do that.
In fact have learned that the very best way to initiate is the most subtle possible. It almost has to be that I cannot showcase "too much" desire. I try to put it hardly out there. Text. Suggest maybe dinner out. Etc. I suppose part of it is as well to reduce the all too often pain of rejection.
So we have continued to have some sex. (average of couple times a month) BUT it has to be HIGHLY orchestrated and almost "by accident".
She has resumed the NO initiation again. SO I am left to do that.
In the first few months she was open enough to even quasi initiate so much as to meet the suggestions for a nice weekend or night with some dialog or interest.
Then it became a situation where if we made love at one point and it was a nice time. Enjoyable time away..etc IF a couple weeks even later I suggested we do again was met with anger. Suggestion that "we JUST did" ."it's never enough" "I knew this would happen" ."you are pressuring me"
Now let me be REALLY clear again. I do not and have not EVER pressured for sex. So THAT is a really tough statement to hear. AND I clearly wince each time.
SO ---all this leads me up to the recent incidence I need some people to help me understand or dissect.
We were "in agreement" to have sex about 2 weeks ago one night. AS we go to the night she announced she was too tired. I said ok (was disappointed) but let it go. She said how about tomorrow night.
Tomorrow night arrives -I suggest we go out to a nice dinner.
As the day goes on she seems bent on us getting into an argument. Any argument. About ANYTHING
I avoid it..so she simply makes and issue up to get angry at me. Preposterous at that. But you guessed it dinner she calls off. And so is any possibility of sex.
Fast forward to last night.
We had a REALLY nice day together. (rare in a BPD world). Went out to lunch at a favorite place. Took a walk. Had a great time talking about us, future, etc Was truly great close. Even held hands and kissed a bit. We told each other how much we loved one another etc. This continued thru the day.
Later on way home I suggested we carve out some time for us later.
She said "OK. But I won't want to if I wind up tired later".
I inside was thinking "what?" Now predicting tired? But I let it go and said something like "ok if so we at some point really should try to figure out a way we can find time for us when not so tired"
Anyway the early evening came.
I finished all the tasks for the day picked up and shuttled the kids here and there..came home and she said she needed wine. So I headed BACK out to get some. (my wife from day ONE has ALWAYS needed alcohol when having sex. I have asked and she has stated that "sex has always stressed her out".."alcohol reduces her stress")
I return with it.
Eventually she heads up to bed.
I follow shortly afterward.
We lie in bed and talk about anything she wants to for over an hour. (this is ALWAYS the case. IF I make a move "to soon"..she get angry. It is almost as though sex needs to be NOT overtly stated. IN some odd way I cannot SHOW my desire to her. (Which is a complete mystery to me as ME HAVING desire for her I would think would be a good thing(???)
Anyway usually the sex starts with me eventually starting to caress or begin to take her top off. I am a very attentive lover so I do not rush into anything and she eventually does get very responsive.
This night..after talking about things she states that "she is not going to be able to "be there" tonight"
"too stressed.."
I asked her why she was stressed? Then she dropped the horrible statement on me. " I feel pressured" ."I am not into it tonight for whatever reason"..
And I was REALLY nice about it. But she would not STOP being really angry and almost made up pissed. And saying some really nasty things. I kept asking what is wrong? Why are you stressed? WHAT in the world could I have possibly done to make you feel pressure?
I also at least said "I do not feel that I did anything wrong. I had a great and intimate day with you I felt GREAT feelings for you and I wanted to make love to you"
Her answer? "you just need a release" ."you are like all men"
I was really shocked at this stuff. But I stayed calm and said "what is driving this"?
She said that she decided she was not "in a good spot to have se" and that I need to respect that.
I said I really do respect that..I do NOT want to if she does not. But WHY all this ugliness? WHY or WHAT or HOW could she possibly feel like I did anything wrong or caused her to feel pressure??
I asked "when did you feel pressure"?
She said "the moment you first asked".
SO everyone PLEASE help me with this
SHE will not initiate. I am left to do that. I HARDLY ask anywhere NEAR the frequency commiserate when I feel sexual or desire her.
I am VERY careful to ONLY suggest when there MIGHT be a possibility.
I am turned down or excuses are eventually made/arguments manufactured approximately 90% of the time even at that.
SO PLEASE if anyone especially any women can weigh in on what this is.
My sanity is at stake...(said only partly in jest...)
Put the internet to work for you.
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